To my surprise… We don’t have to chuck out everything we know about SEO! In this episode, I chat with Adi Aviram a Berlin-based SEO consultant. We talk about how SEO works in 2025, and what to look out for in the future. (Yes, even though AI search results are *in* right now.)
Listen on: Apple Podcasts.
Connect with Adi: https://technical-emotional-support.kit.com
Adi’s LinkedIn profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adi-aviram/
Adi’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/didi.sun.shine
Transcript
Introduction
Lou:
Hello. In this podcast, I’ve got a special guest, and that is Adi. And Adi’s going to tell us about SEO, and I’m pretty excited to hear from her.
Adi:
Hello. Hi! Nice to meet you.
Lou:
I’m really excited to be here as well. Yeah. Like I said, I feel like my knowledge is a bit behind now, so yeah, it would be really good to hear from you, ’cause yeah, I don’t get this chance every day — and my audience doesn’t either.
Getting Started
Lou:
Yeah. So why don’t we begin with you telling us — how did you become interested in SEO?
Adi:
Yes! So I can introduce myself and my background a bit. I’m now an SEO consultant for businesses. I help businesses establish a website, deal with technical blocks, and of course establish SEO strategy.
I have a background in design and web development, and I’m also an illustrator, so it has something to do with it.
Yeah. So I worked as a — not an SEO developer — I worked as a web developer for a while, for a few years. And as much as I really like code and technology, working on it for clients at least, it was a bit repetitive, and a bit… just always the same, and only numbers, and a bit lonely.
And I got into SEO even before that — before I knew how it was called, you know? I just wanted to make sure that the websites I made appeared on Google and people could find them. And then I got to know the SEO community, and asked for questions, and I found out it’s a very creative world.
So you need to know a lot of technical stuff — like technical SEO and content SEO. And for me, as someone who likes to do many things, like multi-passionate, it was really a good match. Because I got to work on code and solve technical problems, but also to establish content strategy, learn about everything — like every subject that I worked on — and yeah, be more creative.
Lou:
Wow. Yeah. So you’re happy to learn about different subject areas?
Learning SEO and Offering Services
Adi:
Yeah, yeah. It’s really good for someone who, yeah, who likes to learn new things and also uses creativity. Yeah, that’s really exciting.
Lou:
For how long have you been doing it?
Adi:
Um, SEO — I started six years ago. I do it… yeah, so there’s always more to learn, like it’s never finished. It’s always developing. Um, but yeah, I started to do it six years ago.
Lou:
Yeah. Oh, that’s great. Yeah, I feel like, yeah, I’ve known about it for maybe 10 years, but because I don’t really do — I don’t really call myself an SEO person — I don’t do SEO work on websites. So I’m aware of it, and I’m aware of some of the things that need to be done, but I would much rather have an expert take care of that work.
(Hello, editing Lou here. So I just said here that I don’t offer SEO services, and at the time period that I was recording this podcast, that was the case. But yeah, very recently I decided to make this an offer of mine. Specifically, I am doing SEO content, which is providing content to help you get found. It is just one specific aspect of SEO work that I’m doing. So yeah, full transparency — I do offer SEO for this specific purpose, and if you’re interested, feel free to ask me about it.)
Working on Large Websites
Adi:
Yeah, I understand. I worked in-house for companies, so for a long time I was focusing only on one website.
Yeah, so I really — you know, when you work on small projects, it’s always the same. But when you work on a big website for a long time with major competitors, you really need to go to the details of it.
But as I say, it’s always, always changing, always something new coming up. Always people come up with new strategies.
So yeah, it can be very complicated, or it can be very simple, you know? When you work on a small website, it doesn’t have to be very complicated. There’s always the same rules and building blocks.
So yeah, if you have a question, I can just, like — I can continue blabbing.
Lou:
Oh yeah, I’m sure you can. You sound like you can!
This is actually a good tie-in to my next question, which is — what’s a common thing that people misunderstand about SEO?
Common Misunderstandings About SEO
Adi:
Okay, yes. So I think, as I said, people think it’s very technical and that it’s very difficult. And I keep saying “strategy”, so it sounds like there’s, like, these secrets that you need to know, which can be true when you’re working on a really big project with really big competitors.
But in the end, it can be very, very simple, and it can focus on: have a good website, good functioning website, make it easy for the user to find what they want, and care about what you communicate.
So it’s first like self-work for a lot of people, like: what do I do? What is my product? What do I want people to get from me? And communicate it simply.
So yeah, it doesn’t have to be so complicated in the end.
Lou:
Yeah, it sounds a lot like how I understand it to be.
But if you say something like “make a well-functioning website”, those words will go over the head of a business owner. So… what does that mean, and why?
What Makes a Website ‘Well-Functioning’?
Adi:
Okay. One good thing about Google is that they want the website to be accessible, so that everyone can use it.
My father is blind, so for me it’s really important as well. It needs to be a website that a blind person could use, you know, like with a screen reader.
As much as I like creative websites, it just needs to be — for Google — very old-fashioned, also technically simple.
I think today it’s less of a block for people, because most of us use a program like, um… um, a content management system like Wix or — give me another example, I forgot — but you don’t create your website from nothing. So the content management program takes care of it for you, so most probably your website is okay.
If you build your own website with a developer, then it’s getting complicated, and then you need to make sure that it answers all the elements that a good website should have.
But basically, it needs to be a website that works fast, you click on it to get to the link that you like, no errors, you know, that — yeah, everything works as it should be. That’s all.
Lou:
Yeah, because in an ideal world, people are looking for websites, and Google wants to share websites. And in an ideal world, Google wants people to find websites that are satisfactory and easy to use, ’cause then nobody’s going to want to use Google otherwise.
Talking About Google’s Goals
Adi:
Yes, exactly. Yes, that’s it. Like, Google — as much as it’s like some evil corp — like in the end, yes, it wants to give the people what they look for. So they want to look for something and find exactly what they looked for.
And that’s why you need to be clear about what your website is about and use the words that your client would search for.
Like now, I don’t want to use — like, I’m very aware about using terms that everyone would understand. So I don’t use all the SEO terms, you know?
So you don’t need to use only very technical terms that are from your profession, from your field, but use the terms that your client would use and search for.
Lou:
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And that is actually a great tie-in to the next question, which is — um, so in terms of the SEO work involved, um, so what would the difference be between someone like — who works with businesses, like a business coach, and someone who’s like more retail?
How to Approach SEO for Any Business
Adi:
Okay. So just in general, when you want to know how to approach SEO — no matter what your field — you need to do a simple research.
You need to see, to Google, what you would expect to find. Like, to Google what you think that you should appear for, yeah?
See what’s up there, like what are the first five results, see what kind of website they have, and go from there.
It doesn’t need to be unique content. It can be focused on actually what you serve.
And some of the content would be also focused on — you have a location probably — so not only on the website itself, but also outside of the website.
So on Google location — so Google location is what appears like the business Google that you see when you search a business.
And also maybe on — SEO is also not only about the website itself. It’s also about how people talk about your website.
So if someone links to your website, what they write when they link to your website on their website or on social media.
So that’s called off-site SEO — so SEO outside of the website itself.
Lou:
Oh yes, I understood that. That sounds a lot like what I understand SEO to be.
Product SEO VS services SEO
Adi:
Yeah, so there’s some similarities. They’re going to need keyword research, but then yeah, you’re right — the more business coach would need, yeah, some blogs and some articles about their experiences.
And then yeah, a coffee supplier would be, yeah, on the products and their Google location.
And for either of those, off-site SEO — so their reputation is important too. The testimonials on the website itself and testimonials outside of the website.
Google knows if someone links to your website, what it is and what you say when they link to your website.
So if people write about you on Instagram, on Facebook, on blogs — it all makes a difference.
Staying Consistent with SEO Efforts
Adi:
And in general, when you have a business, I always also recommend — it’s a lot of consistent work.
So to be really consistent and work a lot on promoting the website — or like writing a blog or promoting on social media.
So I always recommend for smaller businesses to focus on what they’re generally better in and what they can be consistent on.
Because for everyone it would be helpful, in the end, to write a blog or to be visible on social media, yeah.
Choose what you’re good at, focus on this, be consistent, and in the end it would work. It would bring people.
Lou:
Yeah, yeah. So in other words, it’s not something you do just once.
Adi:
No, no, no. Like — yeah, unfortunately.
Because my partner opened a business, and I told him, “Okay, I’m doing SEO. Let’s do SEO to a website.”
And he thought like, “Okay, you do SEO, and then people come after a week,” and like, look in Google Analytics and wait, you know.
And — no. It’s a long-term. It’s really a long-term strategy.
And you would see results between three months to a year for some businesses, but then it would be sustainable. And it’s worth it.
Lou:
Mhm, yeah. That’s it.
Keeping Your Google Profile Updated
Lou:
And it’s not just about being consistent with those blog posts. It’s also — I would consider updating your Google, your location profile, every once in a while.
Just, you know, sometimes Google will change the information that you can put in there.
So yes — or the recommendations for what, you know, how long your description should be, and all that — that can change as well.
Adi:
Yeah, can change. You’re right.
Lou:
But yeah, certainly I think things like the business categories that you can put in your Google profile — that can change. Am I right?
Adi:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s not only about Google Local. It’s about everything in Google. They change a lot.
They always try to be on top of things. And they try to change with technology and with what users look for.
So yeah, they have a lot of documentation. If someone is into it, you can ask GPT as well, I guess. You can save yourself a read.
But stuff changes all the time.
The Value of Refreshing Content
Adi:
It’s also, as a value, if you update your content. So it’s called content refresh.
And that’s also a big thing about SEO.
If you have a blog or anything — any content on your website — there’s a lot of value to updating it and changing it, unless it really doesn’t need a change.
But Google is aware when you update content, and it knows that — yeah — it gives you like an advantage if you keep updating and refreshing even old content.
So it’s something you should be aware of.
Lou:
Yeah, definitely. And it’s good that you said that you should be aware of how things are changing, because putting myself in the shoes of a small business owner — I’m just imagining someone saying to me, “Oh, I went to this workshop five years ago, and I learned how to do SEO.”
I think — would you say that they probably should disregard what they learned several years ago? Will that still be helpful?
Adi:
I wouldn’t say disregard, definitely. Because as I said in the beginning, a lot of SEO is making sure that the website works well, being current about the content.
A lot of these old strategies of like writing a blog or using this and these keywords — still relevant.
Because it’s all about having content on your website and having the correct content.
SEO is Always Changing
Adi:
But um, SEO also changes. So when it comes to stuff that’s more scammy—if you learned like, some “you have to do that and that and that”—there’s not a “have to do,” because Google is a black box. No one knows exactly the secret. If someone told you, “This is SEO,” it’s—it’s not completely true because, um, no one actually knows. It’s always about, um, trying stuff and seeing what works. Um, so Google also changes with time.
AI and Search Results
Adi:
Uh, should I speak about AI? Should we open it up?
Lou:
Um, yeah, I was going to say because—yeah, I mean now that we’ve got AI search results, does that also mean I should forget what I’m doing, or can we keep doing what we learned four or five years ago?
Adi:
Um, it’s not even only AI search results, because also now people use more and more chatbots as an engine. So there’s this whole world of, um, AI that gives you answers.
What it means, um, in the positive way—because I’m a positive person—a lot of people are just like scared and say, “Is that…?” I just say SEO is changing. Changing from SEO to AIO—AI optimisation. And, um, we need to understand how AI works.
Understanding how AI works
Adi:
So, AI is, um, is smart. AI understands better kinds of content. So it understands images, right? Uh, it can read images. It can read, um, code better. It can read—there’s like speech-to-text—you can transcribe this podcast, for example. So if you put this video of this podcast on your website, um, it becomes valuable also for SEO now. So you can understand different kinds of content, not only text.
We speak a lot in this podcast, and all this would serve you in the future for your SEO—AIO also. So, natural language. Um, so you mentioned keywords. So people were really, really focused on keywords before—using the correct keyword in the correct place.
Now, it’s more about the content itself. So, um, it’s what you’re writing about, it’s not how you write it. Um, so it’s actually, I think, giving people more freedom with writing the content. Because if you’re focusing really technically on putting this keyword there and this keyword there exactly like that, now it becomes more and more about, um, about just communicating better.
Lou:
Yeah.
Adi:
One more thing to say about—yes, please, that never-ending—I’m sorry. I—I also, um, think that, uh, you know what—I’ll leave it for you. Can we—can we continue? If I continue, I wouldn’t finish, I think.
Lou:
No, but uh—yeah, content. Um, um, yeah, let’s continue.
Adi:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Word Count and Useless Content
Lou:
Yeah. Also, you know there’s rules about word count, like “How many words should I write?” And my belief is you should write as many words as you need to get the point across.
Adi:
Yes! Exactly. Let’s look at these horrible, horrible, horrible recipes—like, looking for a banana cake is a nightmare. I feel—I’m ashamed, you know. I’m ashamed that that’s where it leads us for—like, why do you need to write so much text just to give me this recipe?
So my hope is that these kinds of, um, strategies wouldn’t be necessary, and that with time you would just need to write what is useful. And, um, and find, like—and who—who looks for it would find it.
SEO is more about personalisation than meeting an arbitrary word count goal
And, um, I think that brings to what I wanted to say before that I stopped myself. But I think that, uh, in the future, sure—like, SEO would be more about, um, personalisation. So, um, I believe that now, because Google has so much data about us—not only Google, or whatever—they know so much about us as users. They know what we want, where we served, where we are, what we’re looking for, for real.
Um, it has also more information about us as, um, as service givers—about our website, about content creators. Um, it knows what our product is really about. What we, um—what is our specialty. It’s called authority. What is our authority as writers, as a website.
So I think with time, SEO would be more about, um, more about personalisation and less about, um, let’s say, getting a lot of people to notice us. So we will get less, uh, less traffic into our website—less people clicking on our website—but we’ll get the correct ones. You know, the—we’ll get to the people that actually need our product. Um, and that’s something I think is positive about AI that scares a lot of people.
The future of internet content
Lou:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That—that aligns with—with what I’ve been hearing, that, um, yeah—not just SEO but the future of content on the internet is going to be about aligning yourself with the right audience, and not so much about, “Okay, what technically do I have to do, like how many words do I have to write to be in the top position on Google?” Like that’s—I mean, it—it’s kind of becoming irrelevant, kind of, because, yeah, that—whatever you see at the top of your Google search is going to be more personalised to you.
I think that’s probably—I mean, if it’s not happening, it will happen.
Adi:
Yeah, because think about it—like, you use like a Google browser, Google phone, um, Google on everything. It knows everything about you. It knows your age, your gender, where you are, uh, what you search for. So, um, it’s really, really personalised.
And everyone says “niche down.” So yes—now more than ever. Like, it’s hard. It’s really annoying. I know—like, what—how—like, what niche should I find? Like, it’s—it’s becoming stressful for people, I know. But, um—but it’s true.
It’s just, um—you don’t need to provide for everyone. You don’t need everyone to find you.
Lou:
Yeah, that’s it. You need the right clients, not all the clients.
Adi:
Yeah.
Traffic Versus Conversions
Lou:
Yeah, that’s it. I do find that some people are still kind of—they’re obsessed with the volume of website traffic.
Adi:
No, we need—we need to move away from that.
Lou:
Yeah.
Lou:
Yeah.
Adi:
It’s more about conversions now. Volume—that’s about traffic. It’s about—it’s always been about conversions in the end. You always needed conversion. But you thought—you thought like, “Okay, to see conversion I need to see—like, if it’s 5% conversions, I need to have like a lot, a lot of traffic, a lot of clicks, a lot of people finding me,” but, um, it wouldn’t be that way.
I believe it would be more about just like—get three, four views, but they’re all going to convert. So that’s probably the future.
Lou:
Yeah. One day. Well, I—I hope so. I mean, I hope it gets better because at the moment, um, there are a lot of bad Google AI search results.
Adi:
Yeah. There are a lot of bad AI search results. There’s a lot of bad AI content that’s saturating the net. Um—
Lou:
Yeah.
AI in SEO Communities
Adi:
Uh, yeah. Actually, I’m going to, like, um—I’m going to speak at a conference about—for women in SEO soon. And there are a lot of, um—the women—the SEO, um, the SEO people are, um, are really against AI results. Some say it’s going to disappear, that, uh, Google’s going to pull it back. Maybe it’s not going to be the way it is, and maybe it’s going to change.
But I don’t think AI is going anywhere. And we see that—like, we saw on AI graphics that AI graphics used to give us seven fingers. Now people cannot see the difference. So it’s going to get better. I’m trusting—I’m trusting them to—it’s better sooner than we think.
Lou:
Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, I don’t think the, um, the big tech companies are going to pull out of their decisions anytime soon.
Adi:
No. Um, it can be a back and forth, but I think it’s going to be there. We cannot ignore AI.
Wrapping Up and Staying Connected
Adi:
Um but yeah, Google always works on getting better, giving better results. And as I say, it’s not only Google now—it’s everybody that you speak with. And that’s how we’re going to find our information very, very soon, I think.
Lou:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. Yeah, that makes sense. That’s so exciting that you’re going to speak—that’s so exciting, by the way—that you’re going to speak at a conference!
Adi:
Yes! Um, yeah, I’m going to speak there. It’s a women in SEO event soon in Berlin. Um, yeah. And, um, yeah, and in general—I would love to get in touch with everyone that has any more questions about what I spoke about here today. Anyone who feels like—yes—any technical fears or blockages or wants to improve their websites for SEO—I’m here for you.
Lou:
Oh, you’re a mind reader—I was about to ask you how we can do that.
Find Adi Aviram
Adi:
Um, yeah, I think I’m going to give you my link. You can find my website, and you can Google me. Good old Google!
Lou:
All right—we’re going to trust Google to help us find you. Could you, okay, just for the people who are listening, can you spell it for us?
Adi:
It’s A, D, I, A, V, I, R, A, M.
Lou:
Yes! Awesome. Thank you so much. Well, we’re about out of time, but this has been fantastic, and I’m sure that people are going to want to ask you questions.
Adi:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I also have my newsletter—it’s called Technical Emotional Support—so I’m going to give you the link as well.
Lou:
Yeah, I’ll include it in the notes.
Adi:
Yeah, so you’re welcome to contact me with any questions.
Lou:
Beautiful. Oh, it’s been such a pleasure to have you, Edie. Thank you.
Adi:
Yeah, it was really nice to talk to you. Um, it was tough with the time difference, but we made it.
Lou:
Yes! Thank you.
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